I won’t worry about your cold turkey withdrawal.. I won’t feel a thing !

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I’ve had a huge Run in with my doctor. Needless to say I believe I have grounds to sue him and I’ve been talking with an attorney. But this isn’t the only thing I’m up to. I’m trying to start a class action lawsuit. I don’t know how to post this in a group. I would be honored if you would share this and or post it in some pain groups. Thank you so very much.

I know I’m really new in here. I want to try and help those of you who have had their prescription pain medication taken away without provocation or warning.

Last Friday my longtime physician refused to fill my order of tramadol. He said he was apparat how high the dosage was and that I’d need to go to a pain clinic for my pain from now. He cut me cold turkey. He wouldn’t taper me down, he wouldn’t decrease the dose either. He said the DEA is on their way here as we speak. There is no way I will fill your script. I reminded him that he had ordered me to be on more. I was able to cut back some on my own. He said absolutely not. Then I asked him about withdrawal. He didn’t offer any advice about what to look for as I withdrawal, he wouldn’t treat withdrawal symptoms, he wouldn’t even get me a bed in a treatment/detox facility so I could be monitored and comfortable. Sunday I went to the ER and told the ef Doctor what had happened. He was appalled and agreed with me when I told him it was abusive, negligent, unethical, and dangerous for him to do that. That is my story. I’m currently working to get a lawyer to fight my case against him. I also want to start a class action suit against the medical profession, DEA, big government. Whomever is responsible for the intimidation our doctors are feeling. They are looking at us as junkies, drug seekers, derelicts. This is an update as to where I’m at in my fight.

I am making some progress on my medical neglect/medical malpractice suit. I talk with an attorney tomorrow morning. This is a definite strep in the right direction. I even told them that there are way too many people in my same position. They are prescribed meds by their doctor and for no reason and out of the blue they stop the medication totally. They don’t decrease the medication, won’t taper them off gradually, won’t offer withdrawal support, or offer them a bed in a detox/rehab clinic so they can safely go through withdrawal and detox in a safe and monitored setting where they can also be treated for some of the hell withdrawal can lead to. Many of these pain medications cannot be stopped cold turkey. The risks of seizures, suicide, cardiac arrest, and many more horrendous possibilities when pain medications are abruptly stopped with no intervention, monitoring, or medical assistance. Whether I have a case or not with my personal doctor I plan on working towards a class action lawsuit. I know of one other person who had this happen to her just like me, and from the same doctor. I would like people to do a little thinking. If I’m able to get this attorney to file a class action lawsuit against the medical community, DEA, big government, whoever is responsible behind our doctors shutting the doors on us and our pain. Please think about your situation with pain meds and your doctors. If I’m able to get a class action lawsuit formed, would you be interested. I am getting a little ahead of myself right now. But if such a case comes along I’m assuming the bare minimum information they would need is: patients name, physicians name and clinic, city and state,date it occurred, anything like injuries, medical stuff like cardiac arrest, suicide attempt, medication, any complications to going cold turkey. What were some of the things you weren’t able to do while detoxing or after your pain medication was stopped, how was your life affected. Think about these things if you might be interested. I’m not taking names or information right now. I am however really curious as to how many people have had to suffer because their pain meds were taken away and had no help with withdrawal. Please feel free to share this post if you would like. If you would like to let me know I’m not alone in this type of situation please message me privately.  As a reminder, I do have an appointment with an attorney in the morning. I’ve already spoken to two different paralegals in the last 24 hours. Something must be done for chronic pain patients. We are not drug seekers, junkies, or doctor shoppers. They way they have been treating some of us is illegal, unethical, dangerous, and abusive. Patients have rights.

33 Responses

  1. If you figure out how to due the class action lawsuit I’ll join my Dr is doing the same thing

  2. I am one year and eight months into being put into cold turkey withdrawal of my pain medicine that I was on for 21 years. My story is a little different and somewhat insane when I think of everything I am going through because I refused to take a (stronger) pain medicine than I was on. The doctor said “are you refusing me” and I said “yes I do not need a stronger medicine” and I was cut off right then , the hell I have been through and am still going through most of you know. I am suffering horribly with Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome from this and keep wondering if it will ever end. I endure pain every single day that is to the point of in humane. I have had another doctor try to put me back on the pain meds and I have been through so much terror with p.a.w.s. I have been afraid to start it again and then have it taken away from me and have to start all of this from the beginning again. I am three months away from the two year mark with post acute withdrawal and I have read it is supposed to be better then. I see no signs of this. I feel like I am living in some kind of hell that I cannot get out of and I no longer trust doctors to give me anything..I am afraid literally to try and take a regular tylenol tablet for fever and things like that, I have become super paranoid of medication..it scares me now. I will suffer the rest of my life with this pain and the damage that post acute withdrawal has done to my mind and body, while the doctor that did this to me suffers nothing at all. Count me in on anything I can be of help on.

  3. Thanks for our dumb a$$ government, I’ve had 2 seizures!!!! Because of this BS system we have in place. So I go to Mexico every 3 months to a doctor who prescribeds my meds!!

  4. Here we are almost exactly one year from the date of the last comment. Has anyone heard about the original poster’s success with finding a law firm and starting a class action suit?

    Everyone is free to find me on FB. Please let me know you found me via this article. Thanks,

    Kara Rowe

  5. JMO RHONDA,,, i have dealt w/the U.N,,,human right watch,,,,many,,,my point is,,,either they don’t have the legal authority in the U.S.A,,and just recently,,,when every single human right group I contact,,,tried to sit down w/the United States Representative to the U.N,,,the United States refused to enter the room,,See if any government entity admits that the true reason we are choosing death as our only way to stop physical pain,then the United States is legally in violation of international law,,which,,our own DOD,, Representative just accused russia of,,violation of international law,,,Soooo if they admit to this true torture and genocide which they are truthfully doing,,, THEY KNOW,,,WE CAN CHARGE THEM W/A CRIME THAT BRINGS A LIFE SENTENCE FOR ANY GOVERNMENT ENTITY CONVICTED OF TORTURE AND GENOCIDE,,,thus,,they refuse to acknowledge us,,or record are death as death due to untreated physical pain,,,if they play dumb,,,”i didn’t know bull shit,,,they think they cannot be formally convicted,,,I have contact ACLU,,,1ST TIME THEY SAID NO,,,BUT,,RECIEVED A MYSTERIOUS CALL AND EMAIL TO APPEAL their decision not to represent us,,Soo I am,,,,we have to prove,,,,”harm,”’ and bring our case to thee International ACLU out of new york,,,,willing to help me?????maryw,

    • this is why ,”’they keep” claiming to the public,,ie,,in writting,,,,its for our safety bullshit,” for IF,, any one of them acknowledge us /have anything in writting,,,on the record,,they agree w/us,,that this is torture and genocide,,,,they have acknowledge it ON THE RECORD,,, understand??they say,,”thank u for time,,thank u for your info,,,but NEVER,,, yes I agree,,or they have just denied us access to any meeting involving our medicines,,jmo,,maryw

  6. I was cut from very strong pain mediation with no winging what so ever. I ended up suffering from withdrawals. Since I never had them before I ended up missing a serious UTI that travel up into my kidneys area. I was told by my urologist that he knew I wouldn’t make it without pain control. When the pain specialist seen me he wouldn’t touch me due to the meds I was on for pain. He said that was my urologist responsibility. After five days after my pain med was due my urologist finally broke down and gave me perocet 10 3x daily. I’m in so much pain I can’t stand it. The antibiotics they put me on in the er was the wrong antibiotics. A culture was done. I’m still suffering. I think I’m through the with drawls now but the pain is unbearable!! I have 15 plus years of records. My pain has been rated that as a stage 4 cancer patient.

    It just inhumane to make a chronic pain patient suffer threw withdrawals. I’m sure this infection has did more damage to my bladder and now kidneys that was already scared up from the disease I have. So yes a lot of damage has been done, not just to me but millions of chronic pain suffer. If there a class action lawsuits or if one ever comes up I will gladly join it. If im still around by the time it happens.

    I don’t know why it’s not already happen?? since the public has little to no input, they met in secretary four or five times. They didn’t ask for no input from any chronic pain patients. I understand they was trying to save life’s but the way they went about it was inhumane!!

    Plus half the people that signed the guidelines wasn’t Dr at all they was just on the Dr group. A lot of b.s if u ask me.

  7. Def following might be right behind you buddy.

  8. I also am a victim of pain medication and my primary care physicians cut me off cold turkey I’ve also had pain clinic’s cut me off with no help and not trying to get me in a detox center told me to take Advil I have been on pain medication 4 6or 7 years I believe something should be done to hold doctor’s reasonable for there part in giving us the medication and then no warning just no more..then they say your appointment is over you can leave now…

  9. Where does anyone get the idea that patients have rights? In my state (Indiana) doctors can insist you undergo procedures you have previously undergone that have been of no help. If you refuse to undergo these procedures, you are shown the door. I have been told that I do not have a choice. Every patient must do this. Period. I am speaking of injections for degenerative disc disease. I had them done in different areas three times. They did not help me. That is irrelavent to the doctor. This was at a pain management clinic with 3 locations. I dont think there are any pain management doctors in my area that do anything but injections any longer. His offices are all closed and my records going back to the 90’s in Florida are apparantly lost in space. I only knew of his closing because I am a member in an Indiana pain group. I had not seen him in 3 years & was not concerned about my records as a doctor must retain them for 7 years. I was suddenly stricken with another extremely painful disease 3 years ago and see a specialist for all meds for this illness. I do not get adequete pain relief and have been bedridden in agony for 3 years with no end in site due to government guidlines enforced by the Nazi DEA as laws, terrorizing both doctors and pharmacists.

  10. This has happened to me, i feel your pain dude, feel free to contact me

  11. My pain mgmt doc just took me off of Nucynta cold turkey. I’ve been on narcotics in some form since 2011. I’ve been grumpy and short tempered just to start with but there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. I’m changing Drs but it will be atleast 3 weeks til I can get into new Dr.

  12. I would be interested, if you were able to include under treatment. For over a year, I’ve been telling my PM doctor and NP that I’m in pain. Pain that has forced me to live a life on house arrest, only leaving to go to doctor appointments. (There are times that I have to cancel my doctor appointments because I’m in too much pain to go.) I’m allowed 2 pills for breakthrough pain a day. I’ve discussed this with both the doctor and NP…both have told me that I’m on the “maximum” dose of medication. I know this isn’t true because I was a pharmacy technician before I had to stop working. I get to take a pill in the morning and at night, leaving me in pain throughout the day. I developed severe, pitting edema. My hands, stomach, and legs are swollen. My legs are so swollen that I can barely walk. Without even doing an MRI, I was told by the NP that I was swollen because of my back, and it was time to go back to the neurosurgeon and have surgery. The NP left the room, went to talk to the PM doctor, came into the room and said, “The doctor wants you to do a SCS trial prior to having surgery.” He didn’t come in to examine me. Why would I do a SCS trial, remove it, and then have back surgery? I was told by 3 neurosurgeons that I was NOT a candidate for a SCS. My current neurosurgeon needs to perform surgery through my abdomen because there’s too much scar tissue from previous surgeries and unneeded procedures to go through my back. I also have nerve damage, which causes bladder issues. I made it quite clear at my first appointment that a SCS was not an option. These doctors want to perform procedures, to make money…they don’t seem to care whether or not the patient is a candidate or if it will cause more damage. I asked the NP to write me a script for a walker–she refused. She told me to look for one at Goodwill. So, I had to pay full price (money I don’t have) for a walker. Most chronic pain patients are untreated..or untreated. Chronic pain patients should have access to medications to help ease their pain and allow them to live a quality life. I shouldn’t be forced to live a life on house arrest. My crime? Being in chronic pain. No one should be cut off their medications abruptly..that’s dangerous. It’s really quite simple—if a person has a legitimate, documented disease or condition, known to be painful, they should be treated. This has gone too far and lives are being lost as a result. How many lives have to be lost before someone listens?

    *My medical conditions are migraines, Crohn’s disease, peripheral edema, Hashimoto’s, FBSS, DDD, severe spinal stenosis (at several levels), herniated discs (one compressing my spinal cord at l5-s1), bone spurs, arthritis..I was diagnosed w/ a spondyloarthropathy (likely AS), which affects my spine and causes arthritis in many of my joints. I was also diagnosed with a gynecologic cancer. I had 2 fertility sparing surgeries.I need to have a hysterectomy. I was flat out told that I would not be receiving any additional medication. If the medication I’m currently on barely takes the edge off of my pain now, how will I be able to tolerate the pain of a major surgery on top of my regular pain?

    Chronic pain patients need to take a stand–whether we’ve been cut off by our doctors or we’re under treated. What the government, DEA, and CDC are doing to us is barbaric.

  13. Not only are the doctors afraid of prescribing our pain meds, but it has caused extreme anxiety for the patients. What if I have to take an extra one and run out early? Should I count my pills? After volunteering to step down off my phentenal pain patches (I didn’t think they were helping after 2 years I’d become tolerant) and wanting to cut back on my norcos due to the anxiety of dealing with the doctors for my chronic pain, I was offered NO advise or help from the doctors who should have known it would cause withdrawal. I went to the ER having awful withdrawal symptoms only to then be labeled a Pain med seeker in my charts. Wait, what? I am the one wanting to wean off these meds, but you won’t help and you label me as a drug seeker.
    I will need pain meds for my EDS complications and pain which is chronic. Now it’s even harder to get any help.

    • Suboxone could be your best friend. They completly stop withdrawals in the vast majority of people. I’ve been on it for pain management for almost five years and is so much better than the pills. Good luck to you. I know the awful chronic pain wheel very well..

  14. My email is shelbo423@hotmail.com… I had a very similar experience when my doctor decided to leave Baylor- this woman put me on a laundry list of medication including morphine and norco- then said I’m sorry I’m leaving the practice, I already talked to the other doctors on the floor and they are too busy to take you, good luck finding care it’s going to be difficult due to your age. … Good luck…. Really??? The morphine withdrawal alone could have been fatal!!! Luckily with one phone call to Naylor genetics, they referred me to the very doctor she claimed she had already talked too and I never missed a beat. But the thought of the pain I was going to endure without my meds, the thought of the possible withdrawal symptoms made me absolutely terrified. I’m a wife and mother… I have to function daily, I have to be alive… So to just bail on me after putting me on meds I never ask for… Terrifying- I would join your class action in a heart beat. Email me when things are ready.

  15. I would love to participate.

  16. I AM at a pain clinic and always have been… For this category of medication. But they have this bizarre unsubstantiated belief that they can cut everyone’s meds by 50% and we would have no effects…. IGNORING all the times they have already done stupid crap to put me into withdrawala already!!!

    I finally realized they don’t have a clue WHAT constitutes withdrawal!!! Bc he says if that happens call and we can Rx something or raise your dose. But EVERY SINGLE TIME they throw me into withdrawal I have called … Reported my symptoms – you must have a big. We don’t treat viral infections. Oh well you need to call a cardiologist, we don’t treat high blood pressure or tachycardia.

    They do not KNOW what withdrawals actually are!! Unfreaking believable.

    Just fyi…. I am not simply a pain patient and they know this. I have verified autoimmune diseases, adrenal failure (not Addison’s. Complete failure. Atrophy), kidney faikure – one is dead the other in stage 3, in and out of CHF and liver failure, plus severe GI problems we are still unable to nail down but I suffer from swings of hypo and hyper peristalsis as well as violent vomiting and fecal incontinance which always shuts off my kidney functions and leaves me needing IVs and anti emetics and anti diarrheals and even with all that it’s weeks before I can advance my diet beyond clear liquids.

    These episodes are most often triggered because I tried to eat a small (1/4-1/2C) amount of food for a second day in a row… Or for a second time within a week. It has a major revulsion to food which is highly inconvenient to say the least. And yes I am severely malnourished. But it’s the dehydration that terrifies me the most!!! I have been existing on a liquid diet of electrolytes in water or gatorade for nearly a decade. I am in hellish bad shape. I haven’t even scratched the surface of all the conditions I am dealing with… There are about 3 dozen diagoses so far. We still have a few symptom clusters we have yet to diagnose and treat. This severely dysfunctional GI cluster being one of them… And is easily triggered when drs try to rush ANY meds dose decrease.

    They are literally putting my life and the viability of my ORGANS at risk!!!! When do they get held accountable for the harm they inflict?!

  17. I’ve had mine stopped due to insurance no tapering doctors think ONLY OPIOIDS have addictive effects. I was on flexeril and was cut cold turkey. I was given baclofen but flexeril helped my muscle spasms and FIBRO better than baclofen. I had seizure like twitching for three days. I also had another dr who was offended I asked for ketamine during an upcoming procedure and asked for an increase on my pain meds I’d been on same dose for 3 years and had a annual tear at L5/S1 so he cut my meds in half instead without even meeting me. He was a replacement Doctor because my old Doctor took off when all the DEA stuff started. It’s been a mess most of us don’t just have ONE pain issue. I have a page and a half!!! Give me some meds that give me relief!! I just want to get better and go back to work and if I can’t have that I just want quality of life. Not asking for much! Stop the torture!

    PS I’m sure I have more stories

    Oh……
    running out of meds during a SCS trial procedure and then trying to blame failed procedure on me. I was awake while they were cramming leads in my back

    • Yeah I was awake during trial implantation too. They put me under during the permanent implant. They pretty much have to because of the incisions and the fact that you have to remain completely still during complete surgery. The fact that they cut you off meds completely during the trial is harsh. This has all gone too far. The alphabet soup group, DEA, CDC and FDA have joined together and attached a us and the doctors who help us like we are a colony of ants feeding on there picnic basket. It truly nothing short of control by torture. Hitler did the very same thing with the Jews during WWII. His Nazi’s kept them weak by not feeding them and they extinguished those who could not longer be slave labor. This is all a violation of our human rights boarding on Genocide.

  18. Gladly I haven’t been cut off as of yet. My PMP and I seem to have a good relationship but unfortunately I’m moving to a different part of the state. I’m hoping to find another PMP closer to my new home but I will drive the 2 hours if I have to in order to have continued treatment and medications. My question really isn’t about not getting my meds, it’s about the abuses and extreme pain I had to endure just to get my medications to begin with? As you said, your primary care physician cut you off cold turkey and told you that you would have to seek your meds from a PMP. Well I went to my first PMP and was submitted to more pain then anyone should have to.
    First the injections. He started with numbing the joints in my cervical spine and all that did was frickin hurt like hell.
    Next came the epidural injections. Three maximum doses in 4 months. Two cervical and one lumbar and he managed to nick my spinal cord injury the process. Now my pain is unbelievable without meds and unbearable sometimes even with them.
    Finally came the stimulators which I was guaranteed would significantly reduce my pain. More misleading lies that truly caused more damage then good. To get stimulator implants in the state of Michigan you first have to go through several sessions with a psychiatrist to make sure your not a hypochondriac or just a loon who enjoys pain. Well I can tell you all for a fact, the pain that I endured would make a Sado masochist change his or her faith.
    First they install a trial unit with the wires inserted into your spine and the control box on the outside. So here you are with 2 leads poking out of your spinal column with nothing but tape holding them in place so you have to pretty much remain immobile for the duration of the trail. You have a box in a belt that you wear around your waist that you have to wear for 7 to 10 days in order to see if it will help at all. Well, remember you are immobile so you can feel the stimulation and it seems to help at the time.
    Next, after the trial you get the real thing implanted. With me I was told that it should only take about an hour after they take me in, and hour and a half at the most. Long story short, 6 and a half hours later they wheeled me into recovery. Turns out that the scar tissue in my C2 through C7 was quite a bit more than my doctor bargained for. Through out my 6 and 1 half hour long 1 hour procedure, they woke me up 5 different times to see if the leads were in the right locations. When I woke up, my wife was hysterical not knowing what the hell was going on. That’s not the crazy part, a month later I started the whole process all over again for the lumbar. Thank God it went much smoother.
    Well after all this pain and suffering from these procedures I was really looking forward to the relief promised. I was so excited that after 3 months of healing that I was going to be able to return to work and continued with my life long passion of cooking and becoming a full fledged Chef and eventually owning my own restaurant. I was eager a willing to do what ever it took to achieve my dreams. I never wanted to have to depend on anyone pain meds and that’s why I believed my PMP.
    I went into my appointments every month hoping that he would say that everything was on track and I was healing great and he never failed to please me with that. Then 3 months after my final surgery, I went to his office in anticipation of being released. I was positive that even though I still felt a lot of pain that I was ready to return to my position as a sous chef at a popular casino resort in my home state. With my short term disability burnt up and ready and willing to return to work the first disappointing words came out of his mouth. “You need another 6 months to heal more. Your leads haven’t quite anchored and it could take up to a year.” MY disappointment immediately turned to anger and I told him that he assured me that I would be able to return to work within 3 months. It pissed me off.
    Well after another 3 months I went back to him and told him that not only has my short term disability run out, but now my FMLA is gone too. My boss was upset and no longer willing to hold my job for me if I couldn’t return right away. So he released me and I really thought I was ready to go, that is until 10 days later when security had to wheel me across the casino floor because the pain was so severe that nothing would help. You see for 6 months sitting around the house and not doing very much at all, the stimulators seemed like they were great. But once I started becoming active they didn’t do a thing. Now, I’m totally disabled and can’t take being on my feet for anymore than an hour. I can’t bend over to tie my own shoes and can’t lift more then 5 lbs without severe, sharp knife like pains shooting through my entire spine.
    So now to the question at hand. What about those of us who complied with CDC directives/guidelines in order to get away from opiates? We are those who depended on alternative therapies and treatments and we have been further damaged because of them. Can we be added in to the class action because we went through the HELL of step theropies that were never FDA approved simply to be returned to opioid theropies?

    • “Can we be added in to the class action because we went through the HELL of step theropies that were never FDA approved simply to be returned to opioid theropies?”

      Chippy, you’ve been through the ringer! I say hell, yes! The more of us who make noise (including adding ourselves to class action suits), the more likely the media will pay attention and maybe, just maybe, start reporting what’s going on. (I realize I’m probably dreaming and it will never happen, but at least, we can all try to get our voices heard!)

    • Chippy, Do you no if try is a class action started and if so can you please give me the information I need to sign up. Thank you

  19. Whelp I’m in and will be looking for this. I wasn’t dropped cold turkey but they did a taper that was so rapid noone has even heard of anything that quick and they didn’t offer any alternate treatment and I’ve been housebound unable to eat solid food for the last month and lost a bunch of weight (I was already thin). I’ll probably have a case of my own due to them pushing a fake fibro diagnosis and refusing to acknowledge my Ehlers Danlos but I’d still love to be a part of a class action just to add to the numbers. Glad someone finally looked into this, I was going to but it’ll be a few months until I can get my info together and get an attorney. You have my thanks.

  20. Excellent post. The DEA is off the rails.

  21. First off,,THANK YOU,, for having the humane kindness to have emphathy for other,,,2nd there is petition called” petition to congress,,due no harm,”,,I mention it ,,not for u to sign ,,but if u want people who have forcible lost their MEDICINES,, there is 28,000 of them on that petition,,,We comment on that petition often,to inform fellow chronic physical pain humanbeings of things like u are attempting to do,,,,maybe let folk know over there ,,thru a comment,,,u are getting a class action lawsuit together,,and I can almost guarantee u will get a few hundred,,,If I could hop aboured on behalf of all of them who signed that pettion I would,,,We sent over 6,000 comments to the United Nations April 2015,,and it definitely help in their decision to address this god aweful inhumane treatment towards the medically ill w/painful condtion,,,,Soo check that petition out for folk willing to hop on a long over due class action lawsuits against the United States Government,,,If I can ,,I will,,on behalf on ANYONE,,,,,luckly,,so far,,barely,,I still have my meds,,,but I know at any second,,,i could be forced to use death to stop my physical pain,,if my MEDICINE were forcible taken,,,again THANK U,,,,,,,maryw

  22. Is there a statute of limitations on these claims? Because mine goes back 5 years ago, when a well-known pain management doctor cut me off with no warning. The forced cold-turkey detox resulted in a torturous withdrawal, six days without sleep, and a suicide attempt. (Doctors suck.)

    • There is a statute on filing and initial claim but if your joining in on a class action it simply depends on health issues or damage done because of their actions. Once a class action is filed you will just have to see if you qualify for damages. Good luck and I really hope you can join in.

      • I’m just wondering how I would go about proving my damages. No one witnessed the torture I went through with the cold-turkey detox — I was all alone. And no one really witnesses the torture I go through on a daily basis with nothing to treat my pain, especially since I’ve totally given up on doctors.

        • money,,and find a ,”tort” lawyers I think,,????for sueing the government for neglect,,torture and genocide,,U have to find a lawyer/team that deals in class action suits against the United States Governments,,,,

    • I’m not sure about a time limit but I’d sure like to know myself because I’d LOVE to include chronic pain patients past and present should we actually find a law firm willing to help.

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